Italy and Scotland find themselves in familiar positions ahead of their Six Nations match in Rome on Saturday.
Bottom of the table with zero wins and points.
Between them, they have received the wooden spoon in 14 of the 16 Six Nations, and the loser here will be odds on to receive another.
It could have been different this year, as Italy came close to snatching a first win in Paris, while Scotland's optimistic expectations after a relatively successful Rugby World Cup were punctured in the first round when it was strangled by England.
Vern Cotter's side has seen its losing streak in the Six Nations stretch to nine. The Scots have won only one of their last 14 matches in the Six Nations, in this equivalent fixture in Rome two years ago.
At least Cotter isn't panicking. In fact, he's showed considerable faith. He's made only one change to his starting lineup after the fighting 27-23 loss in Cardiff, bringing back fit-again winger Tim Visser. Uncapped Edinburgh prop Rory Sutherland is in a shaken up reserves bench, which has also made room for prop Moray Low, No. 8 Ryan Wilson, and center Peter Horne.
England showed how to beat Italy at home in the last round, by taking Italy's best shots for three quarters, pouncing on mistakes, and trusting on better fitness and fresher minds in the last quarter. To that end, England went for a forwards-backs mix in the reserves of 6-2, in anticipation of taking a pounding up front and hoping the backs weren't hurt.
Cotter has gone for the more traditional 5-3, as the Scots have more expansive ambitions than England.
Italy has been keen to attack, too. Despite their positions on the table, Italy (17) and Scotland (12) have made the most line breaks.
Bringing a better balance to the side, trying to have a sharper backline to complement Italy's usual forward strength, has been an objective of Jacques Brunel since he took over the side four and a half years ago. This match marks his last at home as Italy coach, as he is leaving at the end of the tournament.
''I'm disappointed not to have won more in front of these marvelous fans, but I hope that in every match Italy's spirit has been that which our people expected,'' Brunel said.
''It's difficult to weigh things up, if I think just about the results maybe I got less than I hoped for when I arrived, but it is also true that there were many matches we could have won and we only lost narrowly. They would have given a different picture of these past few years.
''But I am happy to have had this experience, to have known Italian rugby. We always strived to have balance in our game. We didn't always manage it, but we always had ambition, desire, and the attitude to do something.''
Brunel's plans have been undermined by the loss of lock George Biagi, flyhalf Carlo Canna, and hooker Ornel Gega, who were all out after being injured in the 40-9 loss to England.
Joshua Furno, who missed the first two matches with injury, replaces Biagi, while Kelly Haimona was in for Canna. Hooker Leonardo Ghiraldini, who deputized as captain at the Rugby World Cup for Sergio Parisse, was also back fit.
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Lineups:
Italy: David Odiete, Leonardo Sarto, Michele Campagnaro, Gonzalo Garcia, Mattia Bellini, Kelly Haimona, Edoardo Gori; Sergio Parisse (captain), Alessandro Zanni, Francesco Minto, Joshua Furno, Marco Fuser, Lorenzo Cittadini, Leonardo Ghiraldini, Andrea Lovotti. Reserves: Davide Giazzon, Matteo Zanusso, Martin Castrogiovanni, Valerio Bernabo, Andries van Schalkwyk, Guglielmo Palazzani, Edoardo Padovani, Andrea Pratichetti.
Scotland: Stuart Hogg, Tommy Seymour, Mark Bennett, Duncan Taylor, Tim Visser, Finn Russell, Greig Laidlaw (captain); David Denton, John Hardie, John Barclay, Jonny Gray, Richie Gray, Willem Nel, Ross Ford, Alasdair Dickinson. Reserves: Stuart McInally, Rory Sutherland, Moray Low, Tim Swinson, Ryan Wilson, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne, Peter Horne, Sean Lamont.
